WC: So, did you watch the Oscars?

LISA: Kind of. I rented Almost Famous, in preparation for tonight, and I watched mostly that; every once in a while, I would turn on the Oscars to see if we could catch sight of anything interesting, or a pretty dress. So, I caught some scary moments.

WC: Such as...?

LISA: Bob Dylan. Fucking freaked me right out! He was like Vincent Price!

WC: That's what Glark said!

MFF: That seemed to be the consensus -- that Bob Dylan had become Vincent Price.

LISA: And yet one of my co-workers told me she thought he was so sexy.

WC: Oh my God.

MFF: But did she think he's sexy now, or, like, back in the day?

WC: Yeah, he was creepy. Maggie thought he looked like Salvador Dali, which I could also see.

MFF: With the skinny moustache. Why were they so close on his face? That's what I didn't understand.

LISA: The really scary part was the beginning, where he was confused, and he thought, was he having an aneurysm? Did he realize what's going on? And you just feel nervous. It was very stressful for me. And then I quickly went back to the band whores.

J.Lo's Assets

MFF: Did you see anything else of interest?

LISA: I thought I saw Jennifer Lopez's breasts.

MFF: You did.

LISA: But I --

WC: No. You did.

LISA: No, but I was told later by some other frustrated viewers that they were wishing the camera would pan down, and then it didn't happen.

WC: Oh. I see.

LISA: But I thought that I had seen her.

WC: Maybe we only saw them in the pre-show.

MFF: It seemed to me when she was presenting Bob Dylan, that, unlike every other presenter who was shown from the waist up, she was shown in her face, which I thought was a conscious decision to not show her boobs. Because they were like, "Oh my God, it's a family show."

WC: It wasn't even like there was an outline. You could clearly see everything, except it was beige, because that's the colour of that piece of gauze.

LISA: I saw a picture later. It was frustrating.

MFF: I wonder how long it will be, now, before someone shows up at an awards show with their breasts out.

WC: Well, with her, we've now seen the sides. We've seen things that were cut with big armholes that showed the outsides of her boobs. We've seen the nipples under gauze. All that's left is for her to wear something with cutouts just over the nipples.

LISA: We have the puzzle in our minds. I feel like if she wants to be that supportive of the industry, to the neglect of her own support, then they should appreciate that.

WC: It's not healthy, either. She could catch a cold.

MFF: I'm concerned about her health. That's all. If you're out there, Jennfer....

Why Does Anyone Watch the Oscars, Anyway?

LISA: My overall take on the Oscars this year was that it made me think about how it is an insider thing. It's a business thing. And yet we're all supposed to care. It's like broadcasting the National Magazine Awards, and then writing about it first, and writing about it afterward. It's an insider thing, and nobody else should care.

MFF: But people like to see the stars.

LISA: Why?

MFF: Because people like stars?

MFF: There's a way in which it's become like the Super Bowl. The media attention to it has now lapped the public's interest in it. It used to be that it was like, "The public is interested in it, so let's cover it more." The fact that there was two and a half hours of pre-show show is a little ridiculous.

LISA: I wanted to go to Ciao Edie. My friends forced me to stay home. I wanted to go out dancing. I really didn't want to see...

MFF: ...Jennifer Lopez's breasts?

LISA: Well, if I'd known that was going to be a highlight, I might have watched more.

MFF: Speaking of highlights -- her lights were high! High beams!

WC: Please continue. So, you were watching under duress.

MFF: Some of the stars were underdressed!

[embarrassed giggles]

MFF: Sorry.

WC: You're like Jackie Harvey's Outside Scoop right now. Anyway. I think that some of the reaction against the Oscars -- "The Oscars are too long, don't need the montages" -- did make the Oscars more like that, and more just an industry thing than a show. There was less spectacle than there has been in other years.

LISA: They are a spectacle, in and of themselves.

WC: Right, but I mean there was less of the variety-show elements that are traditionally present in the Oscars.

MFF: I read a couple of things that complained that, although everyone makes fun of the production numbers and the dancing, when you take them out, the whole thing is kind of boring. I found it a bit boring this year. The other thing I read this year was that because there's so much pressure on people not to fuck up their dresses, and how they look, and everyone has a stylist, that you really don't get the colossally bad dresses of yesteryear.

LISA: Oh, you got some colossally bad dresses this year. And some really poor footwear choices.

MFF: Like what?

LISA: Like the Tweety Bird one! Renée Zellweger!

MFF: Yeah, but compared to what Cher used to wear in the '80s, or that Kim Basinger number with the missing sleeve and glove....

LISA: Well, that was the '80s. Everyone looked bad in the '80s.

MFF: This year there wasn't a standout ugly dress. Yeah, the banana muumuu was bad --

LISA: Björk.

MFF: Yeah, but she's Björk! She doesn't care. That's the whole point of being Björk.

LISA: She laid an egg.

WC: Yeah, it's not like Ellen Burstyn showed up in the swan dress.

MFF: If only she had. I would have stood up and cheered.

Can You Love Movies and Still Hate the Oscars?

WC: So, generally, you don't care about the Oscars. But are you a filmgoer?

LISA: I am.

MFF: Did you see all the Best Picture nominees?

LISA: Almost all of them.

WC: Was the one you did not see Chocolat?

LISA: Yes.

MFF: What did you think of the other movies?

LISA: You'll have to ask me specifically.

MFF: Gladiator.

LISA: I didn't see that.

WC: I think you're the only person I know who hasn't seen it! Even my parents saw Gladiator!

MFF: It was bad.

LISA: Was it?

MFF: Well, when it first came out no one was like, "This is going to win an Oscar -- it's brilliant." It was a great summer movie.

LISA: So how did it win Best Picture?

MFF: I don't know.

Crouching Tiger, Yawning Lisa

MFF: Did you see Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

LISA: Yes.

MFF: Did you enjoy that film?

LISA: No, I didn't.

MFF: You didn't find it to be a modern-day fable?

LISA: Would that mean I would have to enjoy it?

MFF: I think so. Modern-day fables are generally enjoyable.

WC: Not necessarily. Because Chocolat is supposed to be a modern-day fable, too, but from what I hear, it's not enjoyable.

LISA: In what way was it modern-day? Seeing it in the modern day? Because it wasn't set in the modern day.

MFF: Uh. Yes.

WC: It was set in the olden days.

MFF: Yes. When there were blacksmiths.

WC: And doctors were called leeches!

MFF: But not in China.

LISA: You're just interviewing each other!

MFF: It's not an interview, it's a discussion. Between us.

WC: Yeah, sorry.

LISA: I can't believe I was worried about carrying the ball! The ball is all in your area.

MFF: But getting back to Crouching Tiger, one of the things that people have said about it is that it had a progressive message, and the women were very strong characters.

WC: Yeah, but just because a film's feminist doesn't necessarily make it good. First of all, did you think it was terribly feminist?

LISA: No.

MFF: You thought it was terrible.

LISA: I liked the little dance-y fights, because they reminded me of Xena, which I like a great deal. But I found -- well, again, it could be all due to Seasonal Affective Disorder -- my suspension of disbelief was not functioning that night, and all the leaping through the trees just made me think, "Fuck, this is ridiculous." It really drove me crazy, and that overrode any kind of enjoyment I might have had.

MFF: Really?

WC: But it's the kind of movie you really have to give yourself up to, and if you're not in the mood, then you won't like it.

MFF: But they're magical! It's magic! You're like the woman in the theatre behind us the first time we saw it, who was like, "That's so fake."

LISA: I'm all for other people being able to give themselves over to magic, but when you're not in a magical mood --

MFF: You had Seasonal Affective Disorder.

WC: I liked it a lot better the second time.

LISA: You watched it again?! I had a phallic-sword problem with it.

MFF: It's a dream! It's like a dream! Give yourself over to the dreamy wonderland!

LISA: I can't give myself over to the dream!

WC: Leave her alone! Good God! It's not like you made the movie. You're acting like you were in it.

Erin Brockovich and...Wait. Not So Fast.

MFF: Did you see Traffic?

LISA: No.

MFF: So you didn't see three of the Best Picture nominees -- not one, as previously stated.

WC: We haven't even established that she's seen -- did you see Erin Brockovich?

LISA: I rented it last week.

WC: So then she's seen two out of five.

LISA: I decided that I wanted to be Erin Brockovich for Hallowe'en, until several of my colleagues mocked me all at the same time for my inability to fill the role [indicating bosom].

WC: Julia Roberts has small boobs too. Just get a big bra and stuff it.

LISA: A bra? I'm a lesbian!

MFF: Did you like that movie?

LISA: I've prepared a statement on this, because I thought you might ask. I enjoyed parts of it.

WC: Wait, are you done talking about Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?

LISA: No.

WC: I didn't think you were.

LISA: I was interrupted.

WC: Right. So [to MFF] shut up. [to L] First finish talking about Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and then we'll move on.

LISA: One of the things I found problematic -- yeah, I took Women's Studies; it might even merit the extra syllable: it was problematical --

WC: In that...?

LISA: In the conflation of Asian cultures.

MFF: But how were they conflated?

LISA: Because there were a billion of them in there all at once, without distinction. It was pan-Asian.

MFF: Really? Do you feel like you're qualified to make that distinction? More so than, say, I don't know, Ang Lee? He knows a few things about [air quoting] "Asian cultures."

WC: I think it was supposed to take place across a large geographical area, so that was why --

LISA: That was influenced by both Japanese and Chinese traditions?

WC: That was my impression.

MFF: There were several scenes that took place in Spokane, Washington.

WC: Like when they showed the family travelling...

LISA: There was a family travelling?

MFF: Did you smoke a big fattie?

LISA: No, but I did before the Oscars, which is part of why Bob Dylan so fucking freaked me out!

MFF: Now the truth comes out. He was scary enough to the sober man. But to the stoned lesbian, it could be quite unnerving!

Shut Up, De Sade

LISA: I went to see what I thought was going to be an S&M movie -- Quills? For twelve dollars! It was really disappointing. Geoffrey Rush was in it.

WC: He was nominated for Best Actor. You don't think he should have won?

LISA: No!

WC: Well, he didn't.

MFF: Didn't he write with his own poo?

LISA: Yeah, but I can see that at home!

Best Movie of 2000, Revealed

LISA: I have a certain respect for movies that are very consciously about entertaining you. I don't like movies that are pretending to do something else, unless they're doing it well. You're either an art movie, or you're entertainment. I don't like the ones that are confused about what they are. Like -- oh! Charlie's Angels! That was my favourite movie of the year!

WC: Yeah? Why?

LISA: The boob shots?

WC: Okay.

LISA: It was one of those movies that was very clear about what it was, I was very clear about why I was going -- I felt like we had an arrangement.

WC: You and the movie had an understanding.

LISA: I felt like we did! It was just pure voyeurism. And they knew what it was about.

MFF: Who did you think was the hottest, out of the three of them?

LISA: Oh my God, that is really difficult. I have a real thing for Drew Barrymore. Love Drew Barrymore. I really liked Boys on the Side, and the one that she produced, where she went back to high school.

MFF: Never Been Kissed. Really?

WC: I hated that movie.

MFF: Me too.

LISA: Really? But -- Drew Barrymore!

MFF: It was another installment in the fine, fine genre of the mistaken-identity film, along with such fine movies as Tomboy.

WC: "I thought you were an X. Now that I know you're a Y, I hate you. But really, I love you."

MFF: Last year, when we were on vacation, we watched, on HBO, Tomboy, which is a movie about a girl who pretends to be a guy at high school, and falls in love with her best friend --

WC: Just One of the Guys.

MFF: Right! Thank you.

LISA: With Hilary Swank?

MFF: No. And it was Never Been Kissed. There's always that scene with, "How can I ever trust you?"

WC: "Everything you've ever told me is a lie!"

MFF: And then they end up together.

LISA: But don't you think Never Been Kissed was making fun of those kinds of movies?

MFF: No.

LISA: See, again, so much of your enjoyment of a movie has to do with what you think they're intending to do. And as a viewer reading the film, you're predisposed to believe different things about what the film is trying to do. So there are times when you read it, and you're like, "Oh my God, they're so playing to the lesbian viewer." But you read things into it. And I was reading into both Charlie's Angels and Never Been Kissed a certain ironic distance that maybe I only wanted to see. But I think that pop culture's really savvy now and that it leaves enough room for all kinds of interpretations.

MFF: That's what I kind of felt about Charlie's Angels -- it's sort of criticism-free, because, what are you going to say about it? The acting was really bad? But everything about it is ironic. The acting is intentionally bad. The stunts were intentionally cheesy. The story was intentionally stupid. I felt kind of befuddled by it.

WC: I thought you liked it.

LISA: He enjoys being befuddled. It happens so infrequently.

WC: Plus, the boobs.

MFF: I like the boobies.

LISA: Wait, I'm supposed to be figuring out which one's my favourite. I think that what made it work was the triangulation of ladies -- that was the pinnacle. They had everything you wanted.

MFF: But if you had to cast three of your own choosing, who would it be?

LISA: I don't know -- I don't think they could have cast it better. The bodies on those ladies! I got into a big argument afterward because someone was like, "How can you call yourself a feminist and enjoy something that's purely based on the exploitation of women's bodies?" And I pulled the Madonna argument, where I'm like, "They're exploiting their own bodies, knowingly, and that's feminist," which I don't know if I totally buy all the time, and it's still kind of gross that this is great, multi-million-dollar-grossing entertainment. But I felt like I went with another queer friend and we had our reading that I felt all okay about it, but I did feel a little uncomfortable by the teenage boys sitting beside me.

MFF: No, I had a lot of ironic distance.

WC: From the boobs.

LISA: Don't be ashamed. I thought it was good. But feel a little guilty saying that.

MFF: I didn't like Cameron Diaz's hair, though.

LISA: You were looking at her hair?!